ASNT Face of NDT Shauna Kagan and ASNT Marketing & Communications Manager Debbie Segor, CAE, represented ASNT at the SkillsUSA TECHSPO trade show in Atlanta, Georgia, to introduce more than 6400 career and technical education students from across the United States to NDT.
While attending the event, Debbie took the opportunity to learn more about Shauna’s career in NDT and the advice she has for industry leaders looking to grow the workforce, as well as for those considering a career in NDT.
You can also listen to portions of the conversation—recorded while Debbie and Shauna were on-site at the TECHSPO—on the latest episode below or search for Chat NDT with ASNT in your favorite podcast platform.
Debbie Segor: How did you begin your career in NDT?
Shauna Kagan: I was a welder, and there’s just a natural progression for me to start inspecting.
DS: Can you tell me about your military experience?
SK: At 17 I was in the Army Reserve and did that for six years. When I got out of that, I went into welding school and became an inspector. I subsequently enlisted in the United States Navy as a Seabee, and did an additional four years there.
DS: Where did you receive your welding training?
SK: Bender Shipbuilding in Mobile, Alabama.
DS: And what were you welding?
SK: I was a structural welder on ship hulls.
DS: How did you transition from that to inspecting?
SK: I was invited by some Navy inspectors that would come on my job site. I was a lead on my crew, so whenever there was an inspection, I would take [the inspector] around and work with those guys and they invited me to apply over in Pascagoula, for the Navy contracts over there. So I did.
DS: Did that require any kind of certification?
SK: Well, the Navy certified me as VT Level II based on my OJT that they had seen from Bender.
DS: What was your first job out of the military?
SK: I was an inspector at Halter Marine in Pascagoula, Mississippi. I worked on a Coast Guard vessel, their research vessel, I inspected on several offshore oil and gas boats, and then I was hired on as a construction superintendent overseeing the structural development of offshore supply vessels for an oil and gas company.
DS: So while transitioning into a new job from the military, your certifications don’t come with you, right? Did you have to take brand new tests?
SK: It was employer dependent. Halter did not ask me to. They went based on the experience and the certifications that I carried from the Navy. [Similarly], there was no requirement for me to take that to move into the structural superintendent job, so I just kept all my certs with me. And then when I went and did some contract work out in Seattle for the Coast Guard, at that point the government reevaluated me, just based on the time frame, [including] a VT test and some leak testing.
DS: Do you have any ASNT certifications?
SK: I carry ACCP PT Level II. I carry IRRSP for X-ray, and I’m working on my Level IIIs in MT, VT, PT, and RT.
DS: Can you tell me about the work that you do now?
SK: I work for a company called Oceaneering. My business unit supplies umbilicals that sit on the sea floor to control the wellheads for oil and gas; we have several large oil and gas clients. Any given day I may be doing a receipt inspection in the warehouse for big reels of copper—checking receipt inspection stuff, diameter, length, things like that. We also do extrusion inspections, a lot of UT thickness, a lot of RT on steel tubes and on field welds that we get. [We also do] a lot of VT. Pretty much everything we do [requires] VT, just throughout the progression of the product being manufactured.
DS: Can you describe your working environment?
SK: My building is three stories, factory setting (so a quarter mile long). So, I do a whole lot of walking. Throughout the building there’s different manufacturing lines. Everything starts on the west side of the building. We build electrical conductors, and you can kind of see it as you go through the building, how a product progresses. So you start out with bare copper. You run an extrusion over that. You do that four times. You have enough ICs to make an EC, which is an electrical conductor. From there it goes to a hyperbaric chamber where it’s tested for how it’s going to react on the sea floor under different pressures. Once that’s [complete], we take four components and put them in what we call a single twist, and that actually twists them together to make the typical cable design you see in stores and your house wiring, things like that.
From there, there’s a number of different things that we can do still on that same side of the plant, it just depends on what the customer wants. But generally, it’s going to go to an extruder. It’ll get extruded and get a jacket put on it, and once we’ve assembled enough components from there, it becomes an umbilical or a very large extension cord. It moves over into the middle of the shop, and that’s where we build the umbilical. We run it through a larger extruder to put a jacket on it. From there it goes outside where all the electrical testing is performed, pressure testing, that’s where I do my RTs at, and that’s where it’s terminated to have whatever ends that the client wants put on it.
DS: Do the products gets inspected underwater too?
SK: Oceaneering actually has a very large fleet of ROVs and ROV pilots—that’s remotely operated vehicles, undersea robots—so if there is a scenario where there may be an issue with the termination or something within that umbilical, we will send ROVs down and take a look. Because generally at the depths that we work, it’s not really conducive for people.
DS: What codes or standards must you be knowledgeable of in your job?
SK: Of course being with NDT I stay on top of SNT-TC-1A, but as far as our working standards, API Spec 17E, the [ASME] Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code is pretty much my bible.
DS: Since you’ve begun in NDT, have you seen any innovations in inspection, technology, or working methods?
SK: Rope access has actually gotten really big, and that’s quite impressive to me.
DS: But you’re not…
SK: [laughs] No, no, that’s a young folks’ game.
DS: Do you train others in NDT?
SK: Every chance I get. I love to teach. I’ve got five other quality inspectors on my crew, and I’m always pinging them. “Hey, what do you want learn in NDT? What do you want to know? I want to teach you, what do you want to know?” So I’m really looking forward to getting my Level III certifications, because that’s the biggest draw for me is to be able to teach.
DS: Your team covers a 24-hour operation; are you ever called in the middle of the night?
SK: If we have X-rays going on, there are three of us that are radiography technicians. When there’s an umbilical, sometimes we have to weld the steel tubes to make length. So the welders come in and weld and then we’ll roll our equipment in there and shoot. The three of us have to coordinate together and figure out who’s going to run what hours.
DS: What areas of NDT would you like to learn more about?
SK: All of them! I’m kind of a sponge when it comes to NDT. But I think I would really like to learn a little bit more about eddy current. I’d actually like to do some eddy current, I haven’t had the opportunity.
DS: What are your professional goals?
SK: I want to get my Level III certifications. I want to teach with Oceaneering. I’d like to explore maybe setting up an inspector program at one of the colleges, just to try to bring up some inspectors, some young people interested in inspection and teach the basics from VT all the way up to RT, help them satisfy classroom hours and maybe even some OJT hours before we send them out in the world.
DS: Have you had a mentor?
SK: Oh yeah, absolutely, my entire career. Like, go back to when I started. I was primarily a structural inspector with the Navy, but as far as being an inspector, I was brand new. I was extremely fortunate that I was hired in with people that were as passionate as I am now, and they took a lot of pride in bringing up a young inspector. They spent a lot of time with me. They explained what defects were and how to determine between a deficiency and a defect—just what to look for—and how to relay that through reports, and how to get to the root cause and actually assist the shipyard with corrective actions.
DS: Do you have someone that you mentor?
SK: I do, I’ve got another technician at work, he’s an RT technician, extremely sharp guy. He hasn’t had the experience of different inspection scenarios, so he comes to me whenever something different occurs and we discuss how he got there, what the deficiency is, how it happened. He’s just now getting involved with ASNT through work, so I’m walking him through, helping him get a better understanding of SNT-TC-1A and what he needs to achieve. He wants to be ACCP PT Level II with ASNT, and so right now we’re just working on getting through exams and getting there.
DS: What do you think that industry can do to encourage careers in NDT?
SK: Visibility. Industry’s got to get out there and open up entry level positions for NDT. They need to let people know that that’s a job. You don’t see NDT a lot as a job listing—if you’re looking for a job, what you see is quality control. That’s usually where it’s listed, NDT is included in quality control. A lot of people don’t realize that NDT is a completely separate field of work. You can be in quality control and not hold a single certification. Like my job title is quality control technician, not NDT technician. The employers need to realize that we’re going to be short of inspectors, so they need to do their part to help grow the profession and bring the visibility to it. ASNT can’t do it alone.
DS: Could this happen by changing job titles?
SK: It could be something as simple as, not changing titles, but if you put the job description out there for quality control, talk about the NDT side. If you’re going to bring these people in and cert them up in-house to do UT, ET, PT, and VT, let’s talk about that in the job ad. Also, giving them the option to get certifications. Don’t just train them up for your needs or what you need right then. Your program is probably going to grow, so the more well-rounded inspector you have, then the better off you will be in the future.
DS: It sounds like some employers are almost trapping the technicians, right?
SK: We’re going to have to figure out a way around that if we’re going to keep good, qualified inspectors out in the workforce. We’re collectively going to have to figure out some happy middle ground to train these inspectors up, where the employer feels that they’re being treated fair, and the inspector feels that they’re being treated fair. I don’t know what the answer to that is.
You know, back to your other question—it’s visibility and it’s employer involvement. Industry is going to have to help. It’s just that simple.
DS: So how can we reach those technicians, for example, Level Is who are not ASNT members?
SK: Again, employer involvement. The only thing that that I think ASNT could do [to reach] Level I trainees or employer-certified, in-house certified technicians—the most obvious route to me would be, can we make these employers understand why group ASNT membership for their people is valuable? Will they listen? I’ve just gotten my first ASNT membership the last two or three years, and it’s been absolutely invaluable to me. But how can we relay that to these employers? Your inspectors are professionals. This is a professional society. There’s innumerable resources that are available that are going to give [employers] better inspectors in the long run, and that should be what they want.
DS: What do you think’s been your greatest challenge in your career journey?
SK: ASNT Level III certification. That cert [means] you’re the best of the best. It’s a lot of knowledge, it’s a lot of material. Inspectors are, based on their industry, almost limited, though some of us do cover a lot of ground within our industries. But when you’re sitting down for an ASNT Level III, you’re looking at scenarios that you may have never seen before. You’ve got to really understand that method, you need to understand the processes. So it’s definitely challenging. It’s a great challenge, so it’s one that I’ve waited 20 years to be able to take, so I’m excited about it.
DS: Which is the first method you’re taking it in?
SK: Well, you’ve got to take your Basic, and since VT is my favorite—and arguably, some people will tell you, probably one of the hardest Level III exams to take—I’m going that route, so I’m going to take Basic and VT first, and then probably follow that up with PT, MT, UT, and then I’ll do RT last.
DS: What advice would you offer to individuals considering careers in NDT?
SK: Go for it. It’s fun, it’s awesome. Don’t take no for an answer. If you really want to be an inspector, just keep chewing at it and the door will open.
DS: We’re currently at the SkillsUSA TECHSPO; what have you been saying to all the kids that have gotten started in welding?
SK: Welders make great inspectors. The attention to detail and the understanding of the process gives you an excellent foundation to be that well-rounded inspector. You tell the welders that and just say, it’s a big deal now, the fact that in 20 years, I’ve never been laid off. I’ve always had a job, and thanks to my ASNT certifications, should there be a layoff with my company tomorrow, I can go get a job doing what I love because I carry that cert.
DS: What can ASNT do to assist or encourage technicians in their careers?
SK: Keep doing what they’re doing. It seems like ASNT is just making bigger strides every day to try to, you know be there for the technicians and provide resources for their technicians. I would say don’t get stagnant. Keep doing that because whether it’s apparent or not, it is seen and it is appreciated.
DS: We just need to be able to find and reach those that don’t know about the opportunities.
SK: That’s the thing: I would love to be able to snap my fingers and every NDT tech out there, and every QC inspector—because they do VT too, so technically they’re in NDT—could experience ASNT and have the membership and have that opportunity open up. Everything from job resources to professional resources for certs, it’s all there. The mentorship program, the networking opportunities that you have with other inspectors, it’s really just invaluable. And I wish that I had known 20 years ago that ASNT was out there as a resource.
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Shauna Kagan is one of ASNT’s Faces of NDT. To read more about her and her fellow Face of NDT, Rhett Martin, visit https://blog.asnt.org/meet-your-new-faces-of-ndt/. You can also listen to the three of them in conversation together on a previous episode of Chat NDT with ASNT here: https://blog.asnt.org/17-faces-of-ndt-tell-their-stories/
Debbie Segor, CAE, is Marketing and Communications Manager at ASNT, and the host of Chat NDT with ASNT.
SkillsUSA is a partnership of students, teachers, and industry working together to ensure America has a skilled workforce. A nonprofit national education association, SkillsUSA serves middle school, high school and college/postsecondary students preparing for careers in trade, technical, and skilled service occupations. While at the TECHSPO, Shauna demonstrated magnetic particle testing, ultrasonic testing, and visual testing, and she and Debbie shared the advantages and benefits of a career in NDT with event attendees. Read more about the SkillsUSA National Leadership & Skills Conference here: https://www.skillsusa.org/events-training/national-leadership-and-skills-conference/
Thank you for being a source of inspiration and motivation for your readers.
I admire your ability to articulate your thoughts and ideas so eloquently.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing.